Continued from introductions.

<Host 1>   WELCOME EVERYONE TO TODAY'S SPECIAL CHAT  T H R E E S O M E S !
<Host 1>  Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen; I'd like to welcome you all to the last featured chat of the summer.
<Host 1>  Today's gathering is brought to you by the number  3  and the letters  M F  and  M  and the symbol  /  - The combination of these sponsors promises us all a sweet and erotic afternoon.
<Host 1>  Today we have with us five practitioners of this sweet art:   Drovar, JiM, MJ, Merri-Todd Webster, and Xanthe  - all authors of great accomplishment in the genre.
<Host 1>  So without any further preambles, let's get to it by asking each of our invited guest to speak of themselves and their work.
<Host 1>  To be fair today, let's approach this alphabetically.  Drover,   would you like to begin:
<Drovar> Okay, well as most folks know I'm a devoted Spender fanatic, though I began in fanfic thoroughly infatuated with M/K.  So far my threesomes have included Spender/Krycek/Pendrell and Spender/Krycek/Fowley.
<MTW> Yea Pendrell!  (sorry)
<Guest 02> S/K/F!  I'll read that one...
<Drovar> You'll find it at The Ferret Cage . . called "Easier"
<JiM> That's an intriguing combo - S/K/F....
<Guest 01> Ok, help me out here.  When we're taking about Spender, we're talking the young one, not the old one?
<Guest 02> Young.
<Guest 01> Not the Smoking man?
<MJ> Jeff.
<Drovar> Oh my no, Jeffrey
<Guest 02> Nope.  That would be the "Nicotine Naughties" site.
<Guest 04> Jeffery Spender
<Guest 02> Jeff has kewl hair, though.
<Drovar> That's it for me
<GUEST 03> what is so intriguing about Spender? I always found him kinda boring... (ducks and runs)
<Guest 02> Pouty lips.
<Guest 02> Long, lean body,
<Host 2> Thanks Drovar:-) --- good nose, too!
<Guest 02> I'll have to go to the Ferret Cage and become educated.
<Guest 01> Sounds like we're talking about Mulder
<Host 1>  JiM, this way please :)

*** Host 1 changes topic to 'JiM in the hot seat'
<JiM> What would you like, doll?  And stop pushing!
<JiM> I started as a straight M/K kid, got into M/Sk, then MJ forced me to write M/Sk/K in "Mexico" and my long slide into ruination began.
<Guest 02> Ruination?  salvation is more like it.
<MJ> Oh yeah, blame ME.
<Guest 05> Our redemption
<MTW> Hallelujah!
<Host 2> Me too... a little force is good at times;-)
<JiM> We flip a coin for every sex scene in the Mexico series -- MJ keeps the coin.   I am starting to wonder about that coin.
<Guest 02> Plausible.  That's what makes a story for me.  And the Mexico series is plausible.
<JiM> But here's the real scoop, folks.  It was a joke.
<MJ> Honest!
<Guest 02> get out!
<GUEST 03> joke? how?
<MTW> Never joke about XF, huh, JiM?
<MJ> She's NOT KIDDING!
<Guest 04> no way Jim
<Guest 12> A joke?
<Guest 02> do, tell, sweetie dahling
<JiM> MJ and I were on WAY too late at night and we started goofing on each other and well..."I Still Have Plans to Go To Mexico" was born in IM.
<Guest 02> but...but it's so well-written
<JiM> We played "Writer's Dodgeball
<Guest 04> your kidding on IM
<MJ> Yes.
<MTW> Writer's Dodgeball?
<JiM> We played Writer's Dodgeball with it for months.
<MJ> It FELT like years
<JiM> In which you write a chunk, then whiz it off to your opponent, uh, collaborator, and wait to see what she does with it.
<MJ> There IS a Part Two however...
<JiM> Then, you both keep writing and try to wrestle your opponent into writing the sex.
<Guest 02> I know of lots of collaborators who do that
<GUEST 03> please, more Mexico sequels!!!
<Guest 06> much more M/K/Sk please... :)
<JiM> There is more.  LOTS more.  All unbeta'ed and leering evilly at us from the shadows.
<MJ> Not finished yet.
<JiM> The sex was a bear to write.
<Host 2> Let it leer at us on your sites, too, please;-)
<MJ> But we will.  We promise.  When we figure out how it ends.
<JiM> With a bullet, at this rate.
<JiM> It's Alex.  There have to be bullets.

*** Host 1 changes topic to 'Spotlight on MJ'
<MTW> Speak, MJ, and declare.
<MJ> Um... what do you want me to say?  JiM IM'd me one night and said "let's write a PWP."
<MJ> So I said, ok, a PWP.  With a happy ending.
<JiM> Be fair - I TOLD you it was ridiculous.
<GUEST 03> you are talking about RL
<MJ> We thought we'd have TEN PAGES.  MAX.
<Guest 02> Mostly sex
<JiM> Happy sex story, we said.
<MJ> So we started writing.  And we couldn't stop it.
<Guest 13> why on earth would you want to stop??
<JiM> There is no 12 Step Program for "Mexico", but we're trying.
<Guest 06> and I'm glad you didn't stop at 10 pages
<Guest 12> Don't stop!
<MJ> More like 100.  I think Alex's fight and rescue at the beginning must have been ten pages.
<MJ> There's a full-size sequel coming.
<MJ> And the entire Mexico collection -- with some unpublished prequels -- is due out as a zine.
<Guest 13> Kassandra's got a zine coming out too?  I'm warming up my plastic. <g>
<Guest 02> Seems like she took the summer off...I missed her writings

<Host 1>  Merri-Todd for the hot seat
<MTW> Is it my turn now?
<MTW> Okay, hmm, well, when I started watching XF, I was thunderstruck with all this M/Sc/Sk UST, so the first XF pieces I wrote were M/Sc/Sk.
<MTW> I started watching *right after* Terma, so I didn't see Ratboy until Patient X.  I focused on M, Sc, & Sk for a while.
<Guest 13> I love the Sk/K dynamic -- it's so loaded with angst.
<JiM> She writes beautiful het and slash sex scenes - hot and romantic and different for each character.
<MTW> I don't want to jinx things, but I have just begun working--with a lot of prodding from JiM--on a sequel to "I Don't Remember" which brings Alex back into the M/Sc/Sk mix.
<MTW> If I finish this sucker, I *may* be the first XF writer to do a fourway.
<Guest 02> Criminy!  How do your orchestrate one of those things?
<Guest 02> Where does everyone's legs go?
<Drovar> MT oh, who's in you foursome?
<JiM> Don't squirm dear, it's not ladylike.
<MTW> I fear to give away too much of the story and sap my energy to write it.
<MTW> I've also begun a M/Sk which may morph into a M/Sk/K--the Precipitation series.
<MTW> I have to confess, I like Scully.  I like m/f/m combos a lot, with the right chick.
* Host 2 agrees with MTV... and thinks that Scully is quite a gorgeous chick
<Guest 02> I like Sc/Sk, too
<Guest 02> Actually, anything with Walter. 

 
<Host 1>  next is Xanthe
<Xanthe> I got into XF when I saw Redux.
<Xanthe> Then I really noticed Skinner (who couldn't???)
<Guest 02> Big shoulders...brown eyes....big....gun.
<Xanthe> I started writing him with M, or with Sc and then I thought...this guy deserves more than just one person at a time giving him some tender lovin'!
<Guest 02> It's getting hot in here.
<Guest 09> gorgeous hands
<Guest 01> That too, Guest 11.
<Xanthe> So I started writing threesomes - M/Sk/Sc.
<Guest 05> Gorgeous Ass
<JiM> So it was just a case of generosity?
<Guest 02> My fave!
<MTW> Yea!  I'm not alone in writing M/Sc/Sk.
<Guest 02> A M/SK/Sc threesome is the only way I can imagine M and Sc in bed together
<MTW> Not the only way, but the best way, surely!
<MTW> I have my (rare) shippy days.  <duck>
<Guest 02> M and Sc are the slices of bread in a Skinner sandwich.
<JiM> What's better to bring a couple together than a Skinner?
<Xanthe> I don't really get MSR, but put Skinner in the middle and I'm a happy bunny!
<MTW> He deserves such pampering.
<Host 2> And the reader, too!!
<Guest 11> In the middle, on top... as long as he's there. :-)
<Guest 04> oh yes Skinner
<Guest 01> Happy Skinner makes for happy readers!
<JiM> Some MSR I love, but mostly, I honestly see M/Sk.  But M/Sk/Sc...can be so yummy.
<Guest 02> that threesome actually makes sense
<Xanthe> I've written a few threesomes, but my big one is Nexus.
<Guest 02> Nexus is wonderful.  The X-File in it is great, too.
<JiM> That was fun. 
<Xanthe> I loved throwing the paranormal stuff in.
<Guest 02> Scully=faith, Mulder=hope, Skinner=love.
<Xanthe> Agh. I knew someone would ask. I've been too busy at work unfortunately, to even think about it.
<JiM> I always appreciate the tales that focus on more than the Slot A - Tab B sex for the three of them.
<Xanthe> Well I've written 3 parts and they haven't had sex yet
<JiM> And yours did!
<Guest 05> Just like a Claddaugh
<Guest 13> isn't that slot A, tab B, tab C?
<Guest 05> Yes, but they're thought about it
<Guest 02> I liked the Claddagh story you wrote, Guest 05.
<Guest 04> Hot damn not yet?? :)
<MTW> No sex yet???
<Xanthe> I love all Guest 05's threesome drabbles and her threesome universe.
<Xanthe> Skinner's bathroom is just gorgeous!
Guest 11 loved Subterfuge Xanthe. :-)
<Guest 01> And that's the only think I'm capable of doing patiently!
<Guest 13> We need to start a fund to keep our favorite fan fic writers well paid to do nothing but write. :)
<Guest 01> Spirit grant me patience, but I want it right now!
<Xanthe> Thanks, Guest 11. Sub's the one everyone remembers. Sigh!
<Guest 02> "Subterfuge" was ... a revelation.
<Guest 02> The whipping scene was the best thing I've read in ages.
<MJ> What a GOOD idea, Guest 13.
<Guest 17> Sub's my favorite all-time XF fic.
<Guest 01> Great.  Now I'm gonna have to go back and read "Subterfuge."  What a hardship! :-D
<Guest 07-> same here
<Xanthe> Thank you, Guest 17!
<Guest 13> It's up there on the top of the tree for me too Guest 17.
<Guest 05> Nope on the Sc/Sk TImelines is mentioned a lot as
<Guest 05> And I still get a kick out of Sunday.  That was some much fun

<Guest 08> I actually have a question for the writers: how did you decide which characters to put into your threesome?
<JiM> For Mexico, I wanted to choose the three characters I thought would NOT work together.
<MJ> If M/K/Sk isn't the most obvious trio to try out in XF slash, who IS?
<JiM> So MJ and I giggled and decided on a challenge...
<MTW> And why do you feel they would not work together, JiM?
<MJ> They're obvious -- and yet the whole Sk/K thing is so implausible...
<Guest 08> I can see that.  I've seen some Krycek stories that were not at all plausible.
<JiM> Well, to begin with, I have only seen ONE Real Life threesome ever work.
<JiM> It's very difficult.
<JiM> Skinner and Krycek are FAR too alike to ever make it.
<MTW> I don't think I really believe in 3somes in RL at all.
<MJ> That's true.  I've known several groups who have tried and failed.   Me included.
<GUEST 15> about a real life gay threesome that has been together for 10 years
<JiM> Two alphas, seriously in love with a single beta, if you prefer that terminology.
<MTW> I'm actually terribly conservative and monogamous.  But writing is another story!
<Guest 08> I think the allure of a threesome is understandable
<Xanthe> I once read about a woman with 2 husbands in a feminist sci fi book years ago, and I knew that was my ideal relationship!
<MJ> Those three would assuredly be outside the norm for relationship survival.
<Guest 13> Do you really see Mulder as a beta?
<Guest 01> Yeah, but I see a tendency in Krycek that would make him want to give up control, just because he could.
<JiM> I have met one, as I said.  Out of five.  Not good odds. And the backhistory of those specific three, even before "SR819" was so problematic.
<Guest 08> more to love, more to sex, one more person to emotionally connect to
<Xanthe> After SR819 a lot of Sk/Sc/M threesomes came out
<JiM> I do see Mulder as something of a beta.  Not passive.
<Xanthe> People really saw the dynamic in that ep.
<MJ> But it doesn't really work that way in RL, Guest 08.
<Guest 13> There are days when one husband is one too many, Xanthe! <g>
<Guest 08> <sigh> true
<JiM> It is very hard to give away that much emotional energy.
<Guest 01> Yes.  Beta Mulder.  Actually of the 3, I see Mulder as third.
<Guest 07-> Oh if the couch in Sk's outer office could only talk
<MJ> Yeah, SR819 brings out the dynamic -- but the dynamic isn't stable
<Guest 01> Yeah, but there are also times when one man is just not enough!
<JiM> But, the challenge and the fun was trying to sort out the three so that some sort of relationship would work.
<GUEST 15> Xanthe, were the husbands bi, or both hetero?
<Xanthe> Bi.
<Xanthe> They have to be bi!

<Guest 08> what about the "needy-Mulder" thing?  Needing more than one person (scully) to stabilize his life outside the X-Files?
<MJ> When you're dealing with actual relationship energy, jealousy, and everything else -- very difficult
<GUEST 15> wasn't sure if it was like a mirror image of Mormon polygamy
<Xanthe> No, absolutely not.
<Xanthe> I want everyone to feel included.
<JiM> I believe that one - Mulder needs that much stabilizing, whether it's Sk/K or Sc/Sk to balance him out.
<Guest 01> I agree.
<MTW> I just get off on seeing slash and het in the same story, with the same characters--it's my kink.
<JiM> You do it so well.
<Xanthe> I agree MTW
<MJ> Mormon polygamy didn't turn out to be ideal either and was created originally only because of a much greater number of women than men in the church
<Guest 01> yep.
<Guest 05> Mulder can also serve as a catalyst as well
<Xanthe> I think it's a lovely kink.
<MTW> Thank you, JiM.
<JiM> Certainly, Mulder does seem to be the emotional focus for the other characters.
<MTW> Slash and het coexist in RL, at least in my Rl, so why not in fic?
<JiM> It makes sense for him to be the focus of the threesome.
<Guest 08> The needy-Mulder thing certainly makes it feel more plausible to me.
<MTW> That's true, JiM.
<Guest 05> While Skinner seems to provide more of anchor
<MJ> I think there's no doubt that Mulder's an emotional catalyst
<JiM> Yup.
<Guest 08> And Scully is EXTREMELY important to Mulder
<JiM> Now, having said all that, can I groan about how DULL that can get?
<Xanthe> Well, I see Sk as the glue to keep them together, the figure the other two cluster around.
<Host 2> It works very well in fic... especially with the balancing factor, like the three  /M/S/Sk I am thinking here) need each other.
<Xanthe> That's just me though. I'm skinnercentric.
<Guest 01> But Skinner seems to be the base (foundation) of the threesome.
<MTW> Any story that ignores Scully loses me.
<Guest 05> so whose the center the anchor or catalyst
<Guest 08> It's one of the things that I don't like about some slash
<JiM> Needy!Mulder being anchored by RockSolidSkinner and balanced by EffervescentSAlex?
<GUEST 03> I have my problems with Sk as an anchor. Who says he always has to be the strong one?
<MJ> Although Scully's important to him, I don't know that the importance is sexual.
<Guest 08> Making Scully invisible
<Xanthe> I agree GUEST 03.
<Guest 08> No, not sexually.  Emotionally
<MJ> Speaking as someone who doesn't write or do het.
<MTW> No, MJ, not necessarily in a sexual way.  But she's vitally important.
<Guest 13> I feel that in many threesomes Sk's emotional needs get ignored.
<Guest 01> No one, actually.  And I do like to see a needy Skinner story! (hint, hint)
<MTW> I don't see a happy Mulder ignoring Scully.
<GUEST 03> Xanthe, how are you going to do that in Nexus4?
<Xanthe> I have to admit that I'm not a fan of Needy!Mulder and strong!Skinner.
<MJ> No doubt of that.  Although JiM and I deliberately removed Scully from the equation in Mex.
<MTW> But she was mentioned in the story.  She was not absent from the universe, MJ.
<JiM> Although she's going into a private sequel....
<Xanthe> Well, Sk is already greatly weakened after part 3.
<Guest 08> I agree, Xanthe.  Needy!Mulder has to be done very skillfully.
<Guest 13> I just don't see any sexual tension or attraction at all between M/Sc.   I know that's abnormal. <g>
<Guest 04> pt3 of what??
<Guest 08> Not abnormal.
<MTW> A private sequel, JiM?
<Xanthe> Nexus, sorry, answering someone's question!
<Guest 05> Nexus
<MJ> No, not absent, MT.  But deliberately not present physically.
<Guest 08> I don't see it either.  Except when Skinner's in the room.
<JiM> Well, more an "in media res" piece.
<Guest 04> where do get nexus
<Guest 13> It's too much of an older sister/younger brother dynamic to me.
<Guest 08> M and Sc both go: "Gimme Gimme Gimme."
<MTW> She was mentioned, MJ, and that was enough for me--mentioned with love.
<Guest 01> Is Nexus on your web page, Xanthe?
<Guest 11> what's 'in media res' mean?
<Xanthe> It's on my site, and on Waltertorture, MTA and SIS, Guest 04!
<GUEST 03> so TLC for Suffering!Skinner, Xanthe?
<JiM> "in media res" means in the middle of things.
<Guest 07-> I think we saw more M/Sc UST in the first season and it dramatically dropped after that
<MJ> Oh, okay.  You, like me, fall into the No Scullybashing camp.
<MTW> Yeah, that's it!
<Xanthe> Yeah, GUEST 03. Oodles of it!
<Guest 04> where is your site Xanthe
<JiM> In this case, a piece set in the middle of "Mexico" itself.
<MTW> That's all I ask--no Scullybashing.
<Xanthe> I so agree Guest 07
<Guest 08> That's right.  NO SCULLYBASHING, EVER!
<Xanthe> I don't like Scullybashing either.
<Guest 08> Fowleybashing, maybe.
<JiM> She's a great character. I don't see why some folks make her a bitch.
<Guest 01> Nor do I.  I like the character.
<Guest 04> yes Fowley bashing yes
<MTW> I agree with you, Guest 07, on early m/Sc UST.
<JiM> Scully, not Fowley.  Whack her all you like.
<Guest 01> Although, I can see where she could be a bitch. 
* MTW bashes Fowley wildly!
<MJ> I think the biggest mistake slashers make is that we overreact to MSR by trying to neutralize the Scullyfactor entirely
<MTW> yeah, but she's *our* bitch, Guest 01.
<Guest 07-> LOL
<Guest 01> And I like her that way!
<MTW> I'll second that, MJ.
<JiM> I think I agree on that one.  Also, we tend to want our characters to have only ONE emotional nexus and that, too, is a great mistake.
<Guest 12> I like it when she's KickAss!Scully, not Bitch!Scully
* MJ waves the Fowley Death Brigade flag high over head
<JiM> Hence, the appeal of threesomes.
<Guest 08> Yes!  Kick-ass, like in Kill Switch.
<Guest 01> After all, what woman doesn't have the urge to be a bitch on occasion?
<MTW> I do think Mulder needs Scully.  That does not mean he needs to have sex with her.
<Guest 13> I love the *idea* of Scully she's so tough, it's just the reality I haven't come to terms with. ;-)
<Drovar> I don't see any particular reason to *bash* any character.  It's completely contrary to the creative spirit of what we do to deliberately set out to humiliate or *bash* any character.  Fic like that isn't writing, it's hackwork.
<Host 2> Xanthe, you did her so well, the kick ass redhead... just read "One":-)
<Guest 05> Admittedly Scully has been poorly written recently
<JiM> 'Course, CC bashes them somethin' fierce, D.
<JiM> Can I ask a question?
<JiM> Of the other authors...
<Guest 01> But there are characters I just can't get behind, ones I just "have" to hate!
<Guest 08> Go, Jim.
<Drovar> Then perhaps you shouldn't write them
<MTW> Watch Killswitch, Guest 08.
<JiM> How many of us truly believe that a threesome would work for these characters

<Guest 01> Which character are you referring to, Jim?
<Guest 01> We've discussed so many different ones!
<JiM> Any of the threesomes that we have mentioned here today?
<Guest 08> M/Sc/Sk?  Sk/M/K
<MTW> Jim asked a question!
<MTW> In RL or in fic, JiM?
<Guest 08> I don't think any 3some with Krycek would work.
<MTW> Do 3somes work in RL?  I'm not sure.
<MTW> I have grave doubts.
<Guest 01> I've been in a threesome that worked wonderfully well.
<Guest 08> Krycek is so far over the line that I think any lust felt by Our Heroes would be overshadowed by
<MTW> If our characters were real people... no, I'm not sure I believe *any* 3some would be tenable.
<Guest 01> Of course, it was mostly just for sex, but we were friends, too.
<JiM> I mean, if we consider our fic as having serious validity in the canon characters and a reflection of what their lives might look like in RL..
<Guest 08> a desire to uphold the law.
<MJ> In RL, my experience is, No.  In fic... allegedly you can make anything happen, but is it PLAUSIBLE?  Are you being true to the characters?
<MTW> On the other hand, there is *so much* UST on that show... sometimes I feel anybody would screw anybody!
<Guest 06> there's always mitigating circumstances
<JiM> I have met one 3some that did - it takes a very special set up to work.
<Guest 08> Yes!  I said before: Krycek has UST with the scenery in his shots...
<MJ> iN rl, THERE CAN BE A LOT TO OVERCOME.  wLAT IS VERY LUCKY.
<JiM> That's the question and then the underlying nervous author question -- do YOU all believe it when we do it?
<JiM> Why?
<MJ> apologize for cap lock there
<Guest 01> Yes.  I've read some very believable threesomes.
<MTW> Yes--do  you believe *our* threesomes?  <g>
<Guest 08> Yes, I think so.  But I will admit being biased reading these stories.
<Guest 06> NL in RL is extremely erm sexy
<Guest 07-> I want to believe;)
<MTW> Biased why/how, Guest 08?
<Guest 08> Because it's a long-standing fantasy on my account
<JiM> There was a question about that?! <g>
<Guest 05> Yes a good writer can do it for me
<Guest 09> One of my favorite threesomes is Viridian5's Krycek/Pendrell/Mulder Green series
<Host 4> I believed in the threesome in Mexico.
<Guest 08> I KNOW that it'd never work, but I still like to fantasize about it.
<Host 2> I do believe it... with both pairing... in your fanfic.
<JiM> I WANT to believe, but, as I remarked earlier in the green room, when I'm taking my meds, it just doesn't seem plausible.
<Guest 06> I loved the Green series <Giggle>
<Guest 08> Also, I have a vision on my head about trying to have as much stability and love as possible in life
<MTW> I believe it while I read it, if the author is good enough, skilled enough.
<JiM> And I ADORE the stuff we've done in "Mexico".
<MTW> And that is all I ask.
<Guest 08> And if it took more than one person...all the better
<Drovar> RL is altogether different from fanfic, people are at the same time more fluid that fanfic characters and sometimes more rigid.  With fictional characters we see a consistency of behavior that we never see in the contradictory people we love.
<Guest 09> I want her to do a sequel they go along with Scully's demand
<Guest 05> Well a whole lot of the x files is implausible and wouldn't work in RL
<Guest 08> I identify with Mulder in a lot of ways: looking for the truth, searching for something
<JiM> D is right.  But the characters have to reflect SOME aspects of RL people for me to believe them.
<Guest 08> Stability is something that Mulder really needs.
<Guest 08> I think that, together, Sc and Sk can provide that stability
<Guest 09> Yeah, Stability, but forget normalcy
<Guest 08> And if they all get naked on occasion, then great!
<JiM> Hence the belief that we all seem to share that two is better than one.
<MTW> Are you satisfied with your own work, JiM?  Your readers certainly are.
<Guest 09> Mulder couldn't do Normal if his life depended on it
<JiM> In what sense, MT?
<Guest 08> But he can try with Sk and Sc.  I hope
<MTW> The threesomes seem to revolve around Mulder's needs, don't they?
<Host 2> Isn't that one of the attractions of Mulder, that he is NOT normal?
<Guest 01> I don't think you can honestly have a sentence with "Mulder" and "normalcy" in it.  Just ain't happening!
<Guest 09> That's one thing I liked in Mexico: The fact that they *all* had to retrain themselves in order to stay sane
<Drovar> Of course, and the closer we can get characters to *feeling* real life the better our fics are.
<MTW> Satisfied that it's good work, well-crafted, as few leaks as possible, JiM.
<JiM> I like the writing I have done there with MJ.  I enjoy the collaborative process.  I think it's good stuff. I also think it's complete fantasy.
<JiM> Um..no.  I always think writing could be improved, though.
<Guest 01> Hey, If I write something, I'm just happy if it doesn't have holes big enough to throw dogs through.
<Xanthe> Nexus revolves around Skinner's needs, MTW
<MTW> Doesn't mean it's not meaningful, worthwhile.
<JiM> There are plot holes the size of Arizona in Mexico.
<JiM> True.
<MTW> I have not read Nexus yet, Xanthe, but I mean to.
<Drovar> Guest 01: that's true for me as well <g>
<MJ> Don't ask what they are.  We won't tell you.
<Guest 01> And I have some pretty big dogs!
<JiM> Skinner-centric is always good, Xanthe!
<Xanthe> It's about all I can do, JiM :-)
<JiM> LOL!  I know what you mean, GUEST 01.  The thoughts that keep us up at 2 am...
<Guest 02> Sorry.  Bad modem.
<MTW> But are you happy with Mexico, MJ, JiM?  Is it the best you could do under the circumstances?
<JiM> I don't know how to answer that, MT.
<Guest 02> Jim, I liked Mexico.
<JiM> It's what it is. <g>
<MJ> Um.  I'm not Hemingway yet.  Or Dorothy Sayers.  Am I satisfied?   No.
<MJ> Am I at all happy with it?  Yes.
<JiM> I like it.
<JiM> Do I believe it?
<Xanthe> Drovar - what about your threesome - the one with Fowley. Did you believe in that? I love the idea of it!
<MTW> Hmm.  I can say I am satisfied with each story *as I finish it*.
<Guest 06> I liked Mexico very much indeed
<Guest 01> I thought we didn't like Fowley?
<MTW> I can always get better as a writer, overall.
<JiM> I'm still waiting for you all to flame us and ask when we'll start writing something decent.
<Guest 02> Why?  You already write decent stories.
<Xanthe> Well, she's portrayed so nastily onscreen, but I'd be interested in the fanfic making her more sympathetic.
<Guest 01> Not happening in this lifetime, Jim.
<JiM> Drovar - what about yours?
<Host 2> JiM, I don't want decent fanfic;-) That's a contradictory in itself, isn't it??;-)
<Drovar> Xanthe; Well I saw it as an extrapolation of what *might* being going on behind the scenes and the motivations behind it.  These three weren't really in a *relationship* at least not a romantic one.
<Xanthe> Sounds good, Drovar
<MTW> Mexico is well-written.  I believe my own work is well-written.   That's all I ask.
<Xanthe> I like the sound of making the psychology plausible. Those stories fascinate me most.
<JiM> I want believable fic that makes me believe it, no matter what.
<Guest 01> Man, sounds like I've been living close to DC for too long!
<Guest 02> If the writer does it, it's wonderful.
<Guest 10> Believable fic with good characterization.
<Guest 02> If they can't manage it, it's like fingernails on a chalkboard.
<JiM> Agreed.
<MTW> I believed Mexico, JiM, MJ.  It was *not easy* for them to establish a three-way relationship.
<Guest 01> I can even manage to overlook typos if it's good.
<JiM> One more "cooing Krycek" and someone dies.
<MTW> Cooing?????
<Xanthe> I read a GREAT m/sc/k by mocomab
<Guest 01> Krycek coos?
<Guest 05> Agree with you with that
<MJ> Ninety percent of believability is characterization, in my opinion.  If the characters are done properly, you're not likely to write them into something remarkably absurd.
<JiM> No.  Alex does NOT coo.
<GUEST 03> I like Suffering!Krycek... can't help it
<Guest 05> Xanthe, Mocombs M.Sc/K was hot as hell
<JiM> The difficulty in achieving a relationship is part of the plot for me.
<Guest 02> Yep. Sex does not equal relationship.
<JiM> "anniversary" piece, but wanted to know how they'd gotten there.
<Guest 10> I rather liked not knowing, actually. 
<MTW> Yes, the plot is, How do they establish the relationship?
<Guest 01> My opinion on if something is good is if I can hear the characters in my head saying the lines.
<JiM> And that sort of wondering does me NO good at all.
<JiM> Agreed, Guest 01.
<Guest 01> If I can hear the dialog in my head with the character's voice, it's good for me
<Host 2> Guest 01, that's exactly how it works for me. If I can see THEM, it's good.
<MTW> That's the acid test, Guest 01.
<JiM> There are some great stories that lose me with the dialogue.
<Guest 02> for example: on one mailing list I read, someone wrote that they read a story where Scully screamed:
<Guest 02> "Fuck me in the ass, Mulder!"
<MJ> Whoo!  Not.
<Guest 02> She said that once she stopped laughing hysterically, she closed the story.
<Drovar> oh dear . . no . . can't see that at all.
<JiM> Can't HEAR that.
<Guest 09> Oh brother
<Host 2> Is Scully is having hot sex, feels hot.. I can see her do it!!
<MJ> Can't hear it, see it, my mind can't even THINK it
<Guest 01> Nope.  No way.
<Guest 02> Nope, can't see it.
<Guest 05> I admit I find the ones with Krycek more believable if they take place after some years and the consortium is down, while the M/Sk?Sc I can easily believable during the series
<JiM> The intriguing thing is, when you go back over the Krycek episodes, he's wordy as hell in canon.
<Guest 09> This is why most of my sex-scenes don't have dialog.
<MTW> That's interesting, JiM.
<JiM> Because Krycek needs redemption and we're all hoping it will happen.
<Guest 09> I just can't picture the characters doing more than moan or grunt or the occasional comment
<MTW> YES!!
MTW believes in redemption for all.
<Guest 01> Now, I haven't seen a lot of Krycek, but I'm still working on season 3.
<JiM> Sk/Sc/M works for me now because they are all in some relationship w/one another.
<MJ> It's true.  Oddly, people claim Alex has very little dialogue but it's not true at all.
<Guest 02> Redemption!Krycek has to be done well, though.
<JiM> Check out TRaTB again.  He's so wordy he nearly makes no sense at all.
<Guest 02> Lots of Suffering!Alex to go with it, for me.
<MJ> And of course though I love MT's work, M/Sk/Sc doesn't work for me out of absolute lack of interest.

<Guest 01> Question time.  What's the deal with Krycek's arms?  Does he have one or two?  In Canon, I mean.
<Guest 02> That's not Krycek.  That's Carter. ;-)
<Drovar> That depends, with characters deep into a relationship, they can sometimes talk to each other and have it seem believable, I've seen it done, but it's not easy.
<GUEST 03> After Biogenesis, can there be any form of Sk/K?
<JiM> It's too easy to make him a White Hat and gloss over a lot of stuff.
<Guest 02> In Canon: one.
<MTW> Redemption does not mean the bad stuff goes away.  It means the bad stuff is transformed.
<Guest 02> In fanon: As many as you like.  ;-)
<JiM> I think there can be Sk/K after Biogenesis.
<JiM> But it would have a serious amount of anger to it.
<MJ> CJ, I think there's a lot still unexplained in Biogenesis.  Opinion's not in yet.
<MTW> SR-819 and Biogenesis must be dealt with for a Sk/K to work.
<Guest 13> Guest 01 it's confusing as hell to me too.  But I like the way Kass had him get it back. :)
<JiM> See "Settling:Up: for my current thinking. <g>
<Guest 10> I think the question is after Biogenesis, can there be any form of M/K.
<MJ> There's a lot more I'd want to know before I'd say "no way."
<Guest 02> Sk/K after Biogenesis?  ARGH!
<Guest 11> How did Kass have him get it back? What story?
<Host 2> There's a Sk/K group on onelist... nobody writes in...
<Guest 13> Settling Up was one of the best stories I've ever read JiM -- have no doubts!
<Guest 01> And where do I find this story by Kass?
<Guest 09> Guest 01, he only has one
<JiM> Sorry, Guest 02.  But there is a possibility to slash wherever there is strong emotion - anger, love, lust, hatred...all grist for the mill.
<Guest 13> It's a Pendrell/K fic.
<JiM> Thank you, V.
<Guest 09> Matter or Trust.
<Guest 02> I can understand that.  But I prefer not to mix my sex with hate.
<Guest 09> Conclusion to the Taming Of Pendrell series
<Guest 02> It's my one squick.
<Guest 02> Other than FOwley.  :-)
<Guest 13> Thanks Guest 09 -- I couldn't remember the title.
<Xanthe> I agree Guest 02.
<JiM> Yeah, but these aren't happy characters.
<Host 1>  Question for all: What got you started writing a threesome instead of the usual twosome?
<MTW> The overwhelming three-way UST I saw when I first started paying attention to XF got me writing threesomes.
<Xanthe> Although occasionally it can work with the right chs.
<Guest 02> My ultimate 3-way UST scene: the Mexican standoff in "Paper Clip."
<MTW> Oddly enough, I read MSR before slash, but wrote slash before M/Sc (I refuse to call it MSR if I write it).

<Drovar> I have a question for the room.  In dealing with a threesome, where the third person is connecting with an established relationship.  (The situation I'm dealing with in a story -- a old lover returns) how do you deal with the shifting dynamics of the relationship? What changes? who gets hurt? Is it possible for such a situation to ever work out for the better?
<Guest 06> I've just sent feedback on Settling Up
<Xanthe> My favorite scene has to be the couch in SR819!
<Xanthe> Threesome hurt comfort!
<JiM> Honestly, for me, it was the challenge of trying to make those three men work.
<Guest 02> <sigh>  Scully loves Walter!
<MJ> Um, Dro -- that's exactly what we did in Mexico.
<Guest 01> Well, who doesn't love Walter?
<JiM> I loved that scene from "Paper Clip" for three-way M/Sk/Sc.   WOW.
<Xanthe> Everyone loves Walter in my universe, Guest 02!
<GUEST 03> oh yeah, the COUCH
<MTW> It just seemed obvious to me at the time:  Mulder wants Scully wants Skinner wants Mulder....
<Drovar> <g> Yeah I know, but how do you work it all out?  I'm befuddled.
<Guest 02> Has anyone written a couch story?
<MJ> It's not easy -- you have o work with the characters considerably. JiM and I talked on line for hours.
<JiM> In steps.  Show the points of connection, the way each character needs the other to grow into themselves.
<MTW> And I just *like* threesomes.  Period.  I also like chocolate, Chinese food, Dead Can Dance....
<Guest 02> Yes, definitely.  Try to save the sex, if you can.
<Xanthe> I prefer it if they just fancy each other like crazy so nobody is excluded. I worry about people being excluded!
<GUEST 03> I read a couch drabble, but it was sloppy
<Guest 05> Dro, there's a nice scene in Josan's Answers which deals with S and K sort of coming to terms with that
<Guest 02> Grow their relationship.  Grow their desire.  Acknowledge their confusions about the whole thing
<JiM> I love reading the threesome (whine warning!), but the sex is hard to write.
<Drovar> Know you characters, or at least your version?  Know them well enough to know how they'll react?
<Guest 02> Have them yell and scream at each other, if possible.
<Guest 02> But sex, and then trying to figure it out?
<Guest 02> Very uncomfortable.  Doesn't work with TWO people.
<JiM> Understand their motivations clearly, as you see them.  Make sure they are consistent, or humanly inconsistent.
<Guest 06>  not enough male pronouns to go round <g>
<JiM> Agreed.  We need new pronouns. <g>
<Drovar> Actually the sex scenes are the easy parts, the relationships, the *real* stuff is where things get difficult.
<Guest 02> I can buy Slut!Mulder and Slut!Krycek falling into bed with one another and not talking about it.
<MJ> In other words, Dro, we're talking heavy plotting before writing.  And a lot of rewriting sometimes, in JiM's and my case.
<JiM> Sure.  Go ahead, Drovar.  Boast!  You write great sex scenes and make it look easy.
<Guest 02> I  DO NOT buy Scully or Skinner just randomly sleeping with someone without talking, thinking, crying about it.
<JiM> I can buy the Slut excuse for a single session.  Not an ongoing threesome tale.
<Guest 02> because they start talking like teenagers on 90210
<MJ> Definitely NOT Scully.  I still believe she didn't go there with Ed Jersee.
<Guest 02> And the next day they're planning the wedding.
<Drovar> MJ: in other words, lots of hard work.
<MTW> "Oh, Mulder... oh Scully..."  Oh, yuck.
<Guest 01> Who's Ed Jersee?
<JiM> Not hard work - a lot of pondering and the famous "What if..."
<Host 3>  To all writers: Who do you like to see suffer the most? Which ones are the best to torture with unremitting angst and why?
<Guest 10> From Never Again, Guest 01.
<Guest 09> Nah. Threesomes aren't hard. Try picturing the latest "Mulder in the Middle" orgy from Orithain. Mulder, Alex, Seven Alex-clones and Mac
<Guest 01> Must be one I've not seen yet.
<Guest 05> Another nice M/Sk/Sc moment: the ending of Pine Bluff Variant
<Guest 09> or was it six clones? I lost track
<JiM> Good threesomes are hard to do, I think.
<MJ> GOOD threesomes are tricky.
<MTW> Why do I not like MSR?  Skinner comes three times in a slash story, and nobody blinks.  *Scully* comes three times in a het story, and it's the sex of the century!
<Guest 06> However many clones it was good
<MTW> Actually, I  hate seeing people suffer.  That's why I chat with friends who help me plot.  <g>
<Guest 02> Can Skinner really do that?  He's nearly fifty...
<MTW> Hell no he can't!
<Guest 02> Hell, Can MULDER really do that?  Or Krycek?  Or Spender?
<MJ> Angst?  We love angst.  Whenever I start being cheerful, JiM reminds me how many times I've made Walt suffer in Pencils.
<Guest 01> I don't know, I had one lover who could.
<Guest 11> depends how long the story is Guest 02 <g>
<Host 2> No way to have the everlasting fountain!;-)
<MTW> But in slash, people write it that way, and it's an accepted convention.
<Drovar> Spender, definitely
<Guest 05> But he has stamina that's what is important
<Guest 02> My husband is 30, and he needs at least an hour....
<Drovar> Three times in a *day* is more likely
<Host 2> Good point, Guest 11;-)
<Xanthe> This is fanfic! The guys have a recovery time of 5 seconds, and that's on   a slow day!
<Guest 01> Well, ya know, 3 times in an hour is impossible, I'm talking all night.
<Guest 13> An hour? 
<JiM> Angst and torture have their place, but I don't like to use TOO much.
MTW wonders if women who write MSR have ever *had* orgasms, but that's another story.
<JiM> It's OTT if you're not careful.
<Guest 01> Angst!  Angst!  Gimme Angst!
<MTW> That's what I mean, Xanthe!
<MJ> So, Xanthe -- does that mean that reality has no place here?
<Host 1> lol, Xanthe... working on it <eg>
<Guest 11> Does sex without lube count as torture? <g>
<Guest 01> Does in my book.
<Xanthe> Thwap, Host 1!
<JiM> I think so, Guest 11!
<Guest 02> Like I said before: M and S are only the bread.  Skinner's the real meat.
<Guest 02> Yeah.

Continue to part two of the logs