Chatting with Kassandra, part 1

On July 11 Kassandra gave us the humor of being the second author to come and talk about her work at the AD’s Office chat room. All of 26 people from several different mailing lists came to ask question, talk and listen to our guest speaker. All names, with the exception of Kassandra’s, have been altered to assure the privacy of both the guilty and the innocent.

A big thank you is in order for Kassandra for her time (she was with us for over three hours), patience, willingness to answer question and wicked sense of humor. A thank you also goes to Griff, UnChuck, Mulder and Gray Shadows for planning and organizing yet another pleasurable chat at the Office.

And now to the business. I hope you enjoy.

*************************

<host2> Hey, Kass!!

<host2> Not at all late.

<Guest4> Hi Kass!

* kassandra wipes forehead!

<kassandra> Hiya!

<host2> Kass, will you want to start off by asking any questions of your own?

<kassandra> <blinking> Um, I don't think so.

* Guest5 hopes Kass is gonna write for us today? Oh please?

<host2> Okay, Hi, everybody! Welcome!

<host2> She is known for several stories, mainly M/Sk....

* kassandra blushes

<host2> would you like to introduce yourself and give a list of some of your stories?

<kassandra> Sure.

<host2> great!

<kassandra> Well, I'm the evil Kassandra, known for Out of the Dark, the Play it Again, Alexei series, the All I want For Christmas series, and a number of stand alone stories with Mulder and Skinner.

<kassandra> Oh, and of course, the infamous Training of P.

<kassandra> me smiles wickedly at the group

* kassandra smiles wickedly, rather.

<host2> Kass also recently started up a new slash mailing list...it's been quite interesting!

* Guest4 LOVES "The training of P" :)

<kassandra> Oh, I'm loving the list.

* Guest5 thinks "notorious" rather than "infamous"

<host2> Folks, my miRC has been a bit glitchy, so if you can't get through to me, please send to one of the other hosts. Sorry!

<kassandra> We're having a lot of fun, I think. Which is the general idea

<Guest7> will do, Host2

* Host1 thinks Training is - very special. :)

<host2> Yes. Would you like to discuss your motivation for starting that list?

<host3> what's the name of hte list?

<kassandra> Well, to be honest, I wasn't finding enough slash.

* kassandra grins

<Guest4> I loved the list two, i just had to unsub because i can't keep up with the traffic with my time limit, which is why i shouldn't be here now of course...

<host2> There's never enough slash!

<Guest4> It's the one i gav eyou the addy for host3

<kassandra> And I figured that if I had a list, I'd get some really good stuff!

<kassandra> The name of the SlashX

<Guest5> That sounds like a bad monster movie! <g>

<host2> Now, there had been a SlashX a few months ago, and it switched names...but this is a totally new list.

<Guest9> Or a new high-tech video driver ;)

<guest14> I just think it's weird to have x/ and slashx

<guest14> they sound almost the same

<kassandra> Well, I wasn't being very original and I actually meant to name it SLashGUEST6, and screwed up on the findmail server.

<Guest12> I liked Training v much

*** host3 changes topic to 'WHY KASSANDRA STARTED "THE LIST"'

<host2> Anything else you want to say about the list, Kass? Sub information?

<Guest12> I like SlashX v muc too, especially all the new M/K I've been getting

<host2> LOL!

<kassandra> Well, I'm enjoying the list tremendously.....I'm having a lot of fun.

<guest14> I like the list, but I wish there were more nonmulder pairings ...

<guest14> M is such a slut, it get's old.

<Host1> Like who w/ who, guest14?

<Guest5> We's working on nonMulder pairings over on Nixxers, guest14.

<Guest4> um, to much slutty!mulder, what a concept...<g>

<kassandra> And to subscribe, you can drop me a note or send an empty subscribe message to subscribe-slashx@makelist.com

<guest14> well, K/S has some really neat possiblibilities.

<host2> there's been a lot of people who would like to see more Scully/other fem stories.

<kassandra> Well, I think recently we had a Pendrell/Krycek pairing.

<guest14> and then, anybody with Pendrell is kind of funny, just because it's pendrell.

<Host1> Which are rare... Scully/other fem that is.

* Guest8 wonders if she assumes correctly that it's not just a discussion list?

<kassandra> Ah. Well, I think that Tamy Erickson started a Scully/Slash list.

<guest14> And I would definitely like to seem some F/F.

<kassandra> Right. We have a lot of stories posted.

<host2> it's been a long time since I've seen any f/f stuff.

<guest14> Tamy did, it's scullyslash@makelist.com

<kassandra> Oh, I don't think we discourage it.

<Guest5> And Kass keeps us very well-provided!

<host2> My impression of your list was that you want to encourage all perspectives, both in discussion and in fanfic.

<kassandra> Yes.

<kassandra> Exactly.

<Guest4> It's the only list i've ever been on where you get a mail from the list mom when you have to unsub, that was nice:):):)

<Guest12> Well I did pair Alex with someone else <g>

<guest14> go, guest12!

<kassandra> Now, I'll admit, I'm not interested in exploring Scully myself, but I certainly don't discourage.

<Guest12> I've enjoyed the K/P I've read

<Host4> Do you have a favorite pairing Kassandra?

*** host3 changes topic to 'THE PLOT THICKENS'

<kassandra> Mulder/Skinner probably....

<kassandra> Oh, sorry. <g>

<kassandra> Um....it varies, I'm afraid. Sometimes, I just write online to amuse people.

<kassandra> And sometimes, I get an idea that knocks around in my head, like the Long and Winding Road.

<kassandra> And sometimes, a mood hits and I think about the characters and then flow from there.

<host2> How about your plotting techniques, if any?

* kassandra blushes.

<kassandra> So, there's a lot of different ways, I think.

<Guest7> when did you write Long and Winding Road and its sequel?

<kassandra> The characters drive it.

<kassandra> Hmmm. I'd have to say that I let the characters tell me what's happening.

<host3> Kas, do you do much rewriting/revising or does the story finish itself very quickly?

<kassandra> Let's see, I think I wrote the first part at the beginning of June, after threatening to do so.

<kassandra> And then wrote the next part, and the prequel at the end of June. I write obnoxiously quickly, I'm afraid.

<host2> You mentioned to me that you get some friends who ask you to write certain elements into a story. I would think that would be quite challenging.

<kassandra> I'm afraid I do very little revising, for better or worse.

<kassandra> The story sort of carries itself.

<host2> But, do you find that fun? The challenge?

<kassandra> Well, actually, I have a friend who asks specifically for stories.

<kassandra> And then says, how about this....

<kassandra> And I write it for her.

<Guest12> You keep us amused *wonderfully* The Long and Winding Road is a special favourite

<kassandra> This is the friend who calls me her windup writer doll. Just give the idea and I'll write it.

* kassandra grins wickedly

<kassandra> Well, she gives such GREAT feedback, I love doing it.

<kassandra> I'm a feedback slut!

<kassandra> and it is fun, she's my instant muse.

<kassandra> I wrote Training of P. for a friend online.

<host2> Do you keep those stories you write for her private? Or might we have seen some of them?

<host2> Oh, you answered my question before I asked it<g>!

<kassandra> Oh, lord, no, she's not selfish. <g>

<kassandra> They're all on my page.

<host2> Great!

<kassandra> Well, the Training of P was for a *different* friend. <g>

<Guest7> thank goodness :)

<Host1> New Q: "Do you know the outcome of the story before you start writing it?"

* kassandra blushes again

<host3> address please?

<kassandra> Not always.

<kassandra> A lot of times, as I said, I let the characters drive what's happening, I let them tell me what's going on.

<kassandra> So sometimes, no, I don't.

<kassandra> ?

<Guest7> what about with something as long and involved as Out of the Dark?

<Guest7> well, did the characters drive that one or did you have a direction in mind when you began?

<host2> Related question, kind of: How do you start a story? What gets you going to write something usually?

<kassandra> So I do more or less have an idea of where we're ending up.

* kassandra looks alertly around the room.

<kassandra> That was very much a case of letting the characters drive it.

<host2> Do the characters ever surprise you?

<kassandra> I started out with one idea that was triggered by a fanfic that shall remain nameless, and tried to decide under what circumstance I could see Mulder becoming a victim.

<kassandra> Because I couldn't accept the premise of the nameless fanfic.

<kassandra> So, a few months went by, with that rattling around in my head, and I started it, got about eighty pages and then put it on hold.

<kassandra> At the time, I was writing genfic, but the community there is......eventful, and I wasn't having fun.

<kassandra> So, I finished the genfic I was working on and went back to writing Out of the Dark last October.

<kassandra> Oh, yes. There's a scene in out of the Dark where Scully and Mulder have a rather bitter confrontation and they both surprised me.

<host2> Yeah, I was in gen for a year, and Slash is much more fun!!...So some of your motivation for writing is to figure out something about what others have written? How about writing as a reaction to what is done on the show?

<kassandra> But it grew out of where both characters were at that point, and was very...very true, I guess I'd say.

<host2> We now have a nice supply of questions lined up...are you ready for something new, Kass?

<kassandra> Oh, I do all of that. Sometimes, I just go off on tangents unrelated to other writing or the show. Actually, out of the Dark is the only one that popped up out of another fanfic.

<kassandra> Play it Again Alexei is obviously a result of the furor generated by The Kiss. <g>

<kassandra> And honestly, LAWR started out in my head as Mulder/Skinner slash, but it obviously wasn't right.

<kassandra> And then Alex popped up, and that fit, so I went from there.

<kassandra> Serendipity and Folie A Deux Reprise and Folie A Deux Pas De Deux both came out of post ep imagination.

<guest14> How was LAWR goingg to be M/S, plotwise? I don't see it...

* kassandra grins at guest14

<kassandra> Well, it wasn't, obviously. I couldn't get the setup clear in my mind, and then Alex popped up and told me how it should go. <g>

* guest14 nods in comprehension.

<kassandra> I needed to get Skinner into the mix, but he was NOT going there. <g>

<host2> Oh! They talk to you!!

<host2> I've heard that from several authors...characters will actually "visit" them, sit down and talk to them...does that happen with you a lot?

<kassandra> Oh, lord, yes. I mean, I don't hear voices! LOL But they more or less tell me.

*** host3 changes topic to 'The walk and talk and chew gum and do lots of other intersting things'

<guest14> I have difficulty seeing Sk taking advantage of a weakened M, kind of like Alex did in LAWR. what do you think?

<kassandra> And Alex showed up and said, 'You twit, it's not Skinner, it's me who gets him out of there!'

<Guest5> Taking advantage!!????

*** host3 changes topic to 'They walk and talk and chew gum and do lots of other intersting things'

<kassandra> I would agree. The dynamics are very different. But did you see Alex take advantage of him?

<kassandra> That's interesting.

<GUEST6> I didn't see it that way at all.

<kassandra> I actually saw Alex as driven by things he himself didn't understand.

<guest14> hmm, he wasn't coming from a very grounded place...

<guest14> he didn't have any of his usual suports, and he was weak physically. most of this was untrue for alex,...

<guest14> but maybe i live in my own perverted little d/s world.

<kassandra> No. Alex was doing this for reasons he himself didn't understand. Betraying his colleagues for quixotic reasons. The scene where he nearly abandons the infant clone in the snow.

<kassandra> True. Mulder WAS weakened.

<host2> Kass, may we put out a new question?

<kassandra> Physically weak and shattered by the experience. But

<kassandra> Oh, sure. No, I think there was definitely power there, but I think Alex chose to use it neutrally.

<Guest12> with a cheeky grinand batting his eyelashes <g>

<kassandra> Go ahead, Host2

* guest14 snickers.

<kassandra> Yup.

<Guest12> I saw it as deep abiding *love*

<host2> Okay....

<Host1> New Q: "Did you worry at all about beginning Out of the Dark M/other - that doing so might lose readers?"

<kassandra> There's a diffidence in their first sexual encounter that was very unusual for our Ratlad.

<kassandra> To be honest, I didn't intend to ever post Out of the Dark.

<kassandra> So, when I began it, it was more as a private exploration of what scenario I could accept as valid.

*** host3 changes topic to 'OUT OF THE DARK'

<kassandra> I sent it to a few friends mostly as....my statement of why I couldn't accept the nameless fanfic as valid or even ethical in the presentation of the characters.

<kassandra> And they urged me to post it, they said it was powerful beyond belief and strong writing.

* kassandra shrugs

<Guest7> why not?

<kassandra> And hey, I'm easy. I posted it on a web page.

<Host4> Persoally, I found your exploration of Skinner's struggle with his dark side fascinating.

<kassandra> SKinner had to deal with heavy issues of his own, there.

<kassandra> Skinner is an honorable man, a man who tries to walk the line, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have internal shadows.

<host2> I don't wuite get what you mean by "nameless fanfic"?

<guest14> could you tell us the scenario of the nameless fanfic, or would it be too revealing? i feel like i only understand hal f of OOTD 'cuz I'm missing context.

<kassandra> We all do.

<Guest7> yep

<kassandra> I will tell you this much. In it,. Mulder turns himself over to the Consortium, via an S&M master they are paying to break him.

<kassandra> And that's all I'll say.

<host2> Oh, I get it now! Doh!

<guest14> hmm, i see why you say you thought it was wrong. it would be very difficult to pull off believably.

<kassandra> And his reasons for doing something so classically suicidal are ridiculous, in my humble opinion, plus this isn't S&M, this is torture.

<kassandra> There is nothing consensual about it.

<kassandra> And I cannot see Mulder being that demented, no matter how obsessive he is.

<kassandra> It was a violation of my perception of the character.

<kassandra> But, I went off, stewing about it, and wondered under what terms I could accept Mulder getting sucked in.

<kassandra> the rest, as they say, is history. Of sort. <vbeg>

<host2> New question coming up...

<GUEST10> though, i can see mulder getting into something that is over his head, and not being able to get out...but your right, those stories are just torture

<kassandra> Yup.

<Host4> Do did a wonderful job with the psychlogical dynamics. Did you research that or are you just a natural?

<kassandra> I don't like getting into arguments about the ethics of Muldertorture. <eg> But if the character doesn't grow or learn--ack.

<kassandra> Oh, well, I think I'm a natural. <g>

<Host1> New Q: "Did you had to research much to ensure the emotional intensity that was present in the Training of P. ?"

<kassandra> Actually, coming from a very Gothic background myself, I understood a lot of the dynamics of power, of lulling that inner voice's warning.

<kassandra> Of how we rationalize things until we're way over our heads.

*** host3 changes topic to ' THE TRAINING OF P '

<kassandra> Oh, my. Well, I'm embarrassed to tell you that I wrote that online AT WORK while multi tasking with databases for a friend.

<kassandra> No research at all.

<kassandra> It just sort of flowed.

<kassandra> Someone told me I should be scared about that. <g>

* guest14 shakes head in vigorous disagreement.

* kassandra blushes scarlet

* Guest5 pines for more snow bunnies

<guest14> snow bunnies?>

<host2> It sure didn't show that you didn't research!

<kassandra> So, I guess the key is, all you have to do is grow up in a twisted childhood and you have the keys to the dynamics down flat!!!

<Guest12> Mmmm M/K snow bunnies

<host2> Maybe you had some background knowledge to draw upon<g>?

<Guest5> No, Guest12, K/P snow bunnies! "Let It Snow..." (not that there's anything *wrong* with M/K)

<host3> maybe we should check her purse for whips and chains and stuff...

<GUEST17> M/K snow bunnies... please

<kassandra> Well, actually, surprisingly, I don't. I've often joked that my ex-husband and I were never into props.

<Host1> I agree. It was a very much down to earth premise you created in Training...!

<Guest12> Just kidding

<kassandra> Or games of that sort.

<kassandra> But the thing is, a lot of human interaction runs off those power dynamics. B&D/S&M just stylizes them sexually.

<Guest8> But you had background knowledge through other fanfics?

* kassandra smacks guest5

<kassandra> Oh, I can do that. In fact there's an MK idea bouncing around in my head.

<host2> ooh, interesting! Twisted childhood, huh?

<kassandra> Nope.

<kassandra> <shrug> Oh, during the course of the many years of my ancient life, I've done the reading, both erotic and clinical.

<kassandra> Gothic, to say the least.

<kassandra> Sort of like Jane Eyre with a Virginia Woolf crossover

<Host4> Kassandra, can you speak to the issue of Pendrall's consent or lack of in The Training of P?

<kassandra> And, as a psychologist I once knew told me, I'm over analytical and cerebral, so I analyze all human interaction, even while I'm just dittybopping around being human myself.

<host2> sure!

<kassandra> Okay, consent or lack of same.

<kassandra> First of all, the setup was purely surreal, highly stylized B&D fic.

<kassandra> Pendrell captured and sold as a slave.

<kassandra> That came from a type of romance novel highly popular (frighteningly so) in the late seventies and early eighties.

<kassandra> <g> If anyone's old enough, they might know what I'm talking about.

*** host3 changes topic to ':A MATTER OF CONSENT '

<Guest12> Yes, I remember those

<kassandra> Our virginal heroine is kidnapped, usually sold on the Barbary coast as a harem addendum.

<host2> so, how did you feel about handling an unconsentual situation?

<host2> And Pendrell is pretty darn virginal!!

<kassandra> And in the course of her ravishment, learns about her own passions and falls in love with her abductor.

<kassandra> Yes.

<kassandra> Okay, I didn't feel anything about handling the consent, versus lack of consent. To a degree, I feel that most B&D fictional setups, unlike the real life counterparts, are nonconsensual.

* Guest5 grew up on those romance novels...and look how she turned out <eg>

<kassandra> The fantasy gains strength off the lack of explicit consent. Without consent, there is no guilt.

<kassandra> You aren't consenting to be pleasured or treated as sexual.

<kassandra> So you are guiltless. All a part of what I consider a serious twist in Western Culture.

<host2> so, do you feel the fantasy nonconsensual situation is not justifying GUEST4 nonconsensual actions?

<kassandra> A rape fantasy, of sorts.

<kassandra> Absolutely. Rape fantasies aren't my gig, but I know very strong women who have had them, and admit cheerfully to it.

<kassandra> So, the entire story is so surreal it's a gender inverted rape fantasy, of sorts.

<Guest3> That addresses the issue of knowing reality from a fantasy

<kassandra> Precisely.

<host2> but is the key to it that the "victim" eventually is consenting? Or is it that it's just fantasy?

<kassandra> And the Training of P is precisely that. An unlikely fantasy.

<kassandra> Highly stylized.

<kassandra> No, the key is that the victim is implicitly consensual by consenting to feel pleasure.

<kassandra> And yes, that it's fantasy.

<host2> what would you think of something like "Training" being written by someone else, and having it end up that he was just dreaming? Would that be a cop-out to you?

<kassandra> Pendrell is released from the labgeek role to experience his own sexuality. And, as the story continues, if you'll note, he begins to manipulate Krycek to his own designs precisely by submitting or not.

<Guest5> And there's the victim-taming-the-captor thing at work as well...

<kassandra> It's very stylized, as I saw it, very surreal in many senses.

<kassandra> Yes.

<kassandra> Well, no, wait. That's not fair. It would depend.

<Guest5> Oops, sorry, I was behind in my reading.

<kassandra> If *I* had written it as a dream, it would have been a copout, because of the dynamics within.

<Guest8> Depend on what exactly?

* host2 nods

<kassandra> But if it were written correctly, it could have been written as a dream, showing Pendrell's inner desires. But the way I wrote it would not have allowed that, in my opinion.

<kassandra> And, as I once said in genfic, I adore my readers, but I don't initially write FOR them, even if it's my friend who calls me the windup doll.

<kassandra> I write because I write. The truth of the story has to be there for me, however fluffy, however deep.

<kassandra> Guest8, did that answer you?

<Guest8> I think so. Does dream imply a character's fantasy?

<kassandra> I was actually startled to hear that it had started a rape controversy, because I thought it was so stylized it was obvious what it was.

<kassandra> A dream can imply a character's innate desires, which are connected to fantasy.

* Guest8 means not just conscious but also subconscious desires

<kassandra> However, we may have fantasies that would horrify us in real life. Robert Louis Stevenson once said that we all have thoughts that would shame hell.

<kassandra> Yes.

<kassandra> Yes, Guest8.

<kassandra> Frequently, subconscious desires that have not been recognized are the strangest of all, we tend to stuff them into our shadow selves for fear of retribution of some sort.

<kassandra> So, yeah, I think that dream CAN very likely imply some fantasy craving.

* Guest8 nods

<kassandra> I don't want to cut anyone short, by the way, there's nothing more fun than talking about writing for me. Well, maybe writing or sex or dark chocolate. <g>

<kassandra> He's so kinky./

<Host4> NEW QUESTION: Kass, if we send you enough feedback, does this mean we can request a story? <g>

<kassandra> Well, erm, I do tend to, ah, take suggestion well.

<kassandra> And you can always request.

<kassandra> Shoot, C. wrote to me on the list and begged for M/Sk and got one. I forget which one. LOL

<guest14> what do you think of challenges, and what's the appropriate venue for them, thinkest you?

<kassandra> Well, that's a tough one. I don't like discouraging them. Sometimes they're fun. But I never take one.

<Host4> Why not?

<kassandra> Let me rephrase. I've never taken one, I've never seen one that pushed my mischief button.

<kassandra> See above, Host4. <g>

<kassandra> Actually, you can always request a story from me, I'm pretty easy going that way.

<Guest5> In what way do you see a request as differing from a challenge?

<kassandra> I may not be able to write it, for whatever reason. I'm stunned that I got LAWR finished, I'd been in Mexico City, sick from the altitude, and came back with whatever it was, blue fingers.

<Host4> In which case, I'll be begging for a new M/Sk story on a daily basis <eg>

<kassandra> Oh, heck, challenges tend to be artificially designed.....I don't know how to explain what I mean by that.

<kassandra> But requests.....for example snowbunnies.....

* kassandra eyes Guest5 threateningly

<kassandra> Snowbunnies are like the Training of P.

<kassandra> I mean, aside from the fact that they're in the same universe.

<kassandra> It's like, I wanna hear more about them, playing in the snow in Russia. <whining>

<kassandra> And that just makes me say, Awww, of course I will

<kassandra> And a challenge lacks emotional interest for me. I guess.

* kassandra ponders that

<Guest5> Well, *whine*, I wanna hear more about them, playing in the snow in Russia!

<kassandra> someone says, these are great M/K stories, but I crave Mulder/Skinner. <whimpering>

<kassandra> And I say, Awww, you shall have it, my poppet.

<kassandra> I'm a sucker, what can I say?

<guest19> Do you think that the personal request adds a level of emotional... something?

* guest14 slavers at the thought of M/Sk. *drool*

<kassandra> Far from being the mean and sharptongued shrew some people appear to think I am, I am, as Goo says, a mushball.

* kassandra comforts guest14

<kassandra> Soon, my poppet.

*** host3 changes topic to ':Begging helps '

<guest14> yippee!

<kassandra> I don't know.

<Host4> Have you given any thought to a story with m/sk around the time of Pine Bluff Variant? I thought it had a lot of interesting by play with the two of them?

* host2 laughs at the topic

* Host4 drops to her knees kissing Kass's feet.

* GUEST17 considers begging for lots of m/sk

* kassandra giggles

<kassandra> Oh, yeah, I actually started one. Hadn't finished it yet.

<kassandra> Like I said, Mexico City intervened. <sighing>

* kassandra giggles even harder

<Host4> But you will finish it right? Pushing out lower lip

* GUEST17 pushes Host4 over to kiss Kass's feet herself

<kassandra> I dunno, Guest19, maybe it is the personal request.

* kassandra comforts Host4

<kassandra> soon, my poppet.

* Host1 falls for M/Sk - anytime, anywhere, plot or no plot - anything...

* kassandra giggles nervously

* GUEST17 grovels for m/sk

* kassandra comforts everyone

<kassandra> Soon, my poppets, soon.

* Host4 on knees facing east and bows

<Guest12> Include K and i'll be your slave

<kassandra> There's a big angst/schmoop novel nearly finished in the All I Want for Christmas universe.

* Guest5 grovels for Alex on a regular basis, sends chockies and other gifties...

<kassandra> Oooh, will you do my laundry and make my kids do their chores?

* kassandra falls down in hysterics

<kassandra> You guys!!!

* guest19 can make the children behave. Oh yes.

Continue to part 2.