<QUESTIONS> NEW QUESTION: What's it cost to do a zine?
<Jo_Ann> Cost: Figure at least $1K for 100 to 150 copies.
<QUESTIONS> wow! why so much?
<Lynda> timewise, literally hundreds of hours, Money wise about £750 per 100
<Celeste&Seah> a Lot!! depend on the size of the printing, of course, and if you have color covers, at least $1,000, up to $1,500
<Celeste&Seah> and you have to take into account that you will not get the money back quickly -- may take up to a year to even break even
<Jo_Ann> Printing--75%; postage/trib copies/binding/covers/etc.--the remainder.
<SugarRush> Paper, printing costs. It all adds up.
<Celeste&Seah> 'Tribbers' copies can kill you!
<QUESTIONS> so what does the average zine sell for?
<Celeste&Seah> I'd say... $20 or so?
<Jo_Ann> Average cost from Maverick Press: $15 - $20.
<QUESTIONS> Contributors get a free copy, right?
<SugarRush> Fifteen to twenty dollars in person, more if it has to be mailed.
<Jo_Ann> Absolutely. There are criteria to be met.
<Celeste&Seah> 'Tribbers get a free copy, so do your proofreaders, artists... etc.
<QUESTIONS> So do you think that the high costs to publishers and buyers will keep people from making/buying zines?
<Jo_Ann> It will keep some people from making/buying zines. Those crazed enough to continue will continue. :>
<QUESTIONS> That's a lot of free copies!
<SugarRush> It depends. In XF fandom, yes, definitely. XF is mostly a net-based fandom. Other fandoms, like MUNCLE, are still more zine-based.

<Celeste&Seah> This is one of the reasons I want my zines to look perfect, be proofread, have a great cover, etc. I want it to be *worth it*, value-added.
<Jo_Ann> Regarding free copies: They must be figured into the cost of the publication.
<Lynda> nowadys about £10 - £25 depending on whether any colour is involved
<Lynda> cost of postage and packing too
<QUESTIONS> So what else adds up to the cost of a zine?
<QUESTIONS> can we do a list?
<Celeste&Seah> God bless Priority Mail -- it's a set cost you can depend on and they provide you with the envelope.
<Jo_Ann> Promotion; postage continues to go up; phone calls;hardware and software!
<Lynda> unfortunately, we don't get that luxury in the UK
<QUESTIONS> How many pages is the average zine?
<SugarRush> Laser printing is very expensive, but at least we can do it ourselves now.
<Jo_Ann> These days, 200.
<Celeste&Seah> I try to cut costs by binding them myself, for instance.
<Jo_Ann> Still have to buy the binding rings!
<QUESTIONS> soo, 200 pages times 5 cents a page... equals $10 just to print it.
<Lynda> It's better thank the old stapling machine, that could cost you copies if you weren't very careful
<Jo_Ann> Cost of pages print is just one paper cost. Don't forget the gazillion pages printed out during formatting and editing.

<QUESTIONS> Where/how do you buy them? Mailorder? I've never seen them in shops.
<Lynda> drafts, postage to and from the author with suggestions and amendments, then finals, then actual printing
<Lynda> buy what?
<SugarRush> You'll never see zines in shops. Mail order or at conventions is the way to buy.
<Guest1> sugarrush - you can buy my fanzines over the counter in japan :) (not by my choice, btw)
<Jo_Ann> Not entirely true, Suge. There's this lovely shop in Hammersmith, called The Sign of the Dragon....
<SugarRush> Where in Japan??
<Lynda> advertised in newsletters, in other zines, at conventions
<Celeste&Seah> these days, you can often find webpages that list zines for sale, and give the instructions on how to order
<Guest1> in manga shops etc
<Lynda> what's a manga shop?
<SugarRush> Ooohhh, that's asking for a lawsuit.
<Guest1> seah - i'll have cohorts 4 on my web page later today. that has one x files story.
<Celeste&Seah> I bought some of my first ST zines at The Federation Outpost, a little shop in Manhattan!
<Guest1> sugarrush, me sue ? snerk
<SugarRush> No, I mean from the powers that be.
<QUESTIONS> So despite all of the costs and troubles, why do you still want to publish zines?
<SugarRush> They threatened to take one lady to court because she sold some t-shirts to some idiot who put them in the window with licensed XF merchandise.
<Celeste&Seah> Interesting--I bought a Star Trek magazine that was Japanese manga some years ago. The editor bragged that Americans didn't have fanzines like the Japanese did. I figured we just hid ours better.
<Jo_Ann> Because it's fun.
<Lynda> Ouch!
<Guest4> Why don't they realize it's free advertising???
<SugarRush> Because I love zines. They're what I grew up with. They're the way I'm used to reading fanfic. Because I don't want the net to kill them off.
<Lynda> they can't see past their balance sheets - they don't realize it actually adds to the enjoyment of their show
<Celeste&Seah> Celeste here: I love zines, and I love to edit & write & lay it out &.. well, you get it.... the feeling of accomplishment after it's done.
<SugarRush> I don't feel like I've been published till I see my stuff in a zine.
<Celeste&Seah> Wish we got more feedback, though.

<QUESTIONS> NEW QUESTION: Do most zine stick to one show or is it a mixed bag each issue?
<Celeste&Seah> I prefer a zine that sticks to one show. Multizines that have one story from the fandom I like and a lot of other stuff I don't won't get my $$.
<Jo_Ann> Some zines specialize in certain fandoms, others are mixed media or multi-media, like Dark Fantasies!
<Jo_Ann> And some zines start out specializing in one fandom, and as the editors' tastes change, mutate to a new fandom!
<Celeste&Seah> Most zines I've seen do tend to stick to one show: the editor's fav fandom, of course.
<Lynda> I prefer zines that stick to one show, sometimes even one pairing within that show
<Celeste&Seah> I am selling a cross-universe novel, X-F, DS, and FK. I kept the print run very, very low because I knew it would be a tough sell.
<SugarRush> Oh, yeah. For K/S: NIGHTVISIONS, NOME, all the old classics. I still have some of my favorite K/S zines.

<QUESTIONS> NEW QUESTION: do you have some all-time favorite zines?
<QUESTIONS> oh, and do Mixed or single fandom zines sell better?
XF: X-PLICIT FANTASIES, eXposure.
<Celeste&Seah> Slash sells best. <g> Also fandoms that are hot, of course.
<Guest1> thanks for the fav. sugar :)
<Lynda> The troubloe with mixed media is that not all countries get all the shows, therefore people won't pay out for a zine that they might not understand
<Jo_Ann> Broken Images, Courts of Honor, Master of the Revels, Cat Tales, Trilogy, and Perestroika--and many more than I can bring to mind!
<Jo_Ann> Thanks, Suge!
<Lynda> XF: Sympathy For The Devil, eXposure, The Guft of an Enemy
<QUESTIONS> Are stories in zines the same as on the internet? better? worse? why?
<Guest1> hey, major thanks Lynda :)
<SugarRush> Ah, yes, Courts of Honor. The WAR AND PEACE of K/S novels. I still have that one too.
<Jo_Ann> Art, poetry, fiction, non-fiction, and all too rarely LOCS!
<SugarRush> What's in a zine? Well, I love a good, well-thought-out plot. And lots of hot sex too, of course!
<QUESTIONS> LOCS?
<Lynda> I think a lot more care is taken with a zine story, and not all stories are accepted by a publisher
<Celeste&Seah> LOCs are hard to get, feedback is so rarely fore-coming.
<Jo_Ann> letters of comment.
<SugarRush> Letters of comment.
<QUESTIONS> tell us about those.
* Lynda wishes there were more loc's in her filing cabinet
<Celeste&Seah> Letters of comment run from "gee whiz, I liked your zine", to deep, meaningful discussions of the stories in your zine!
<SugarRush> LOCS are, basically, feedback letters.
<Lynda> you get much more feedback when you publish to the net
<Jo_Ann> LOCs: There was a time when readers would send letters to the editor remarking upon the zine as a whole and individual stories within. These days the net, e-mail, and listservs seem to have supplanted the inclination. Unfortunately.
<SugarRush> I think I can count on one hand the number of LOCS I've received. Much easier to post fb on the net.
* Guest2 reminds Lynda that it depends on the fandom - some are lousy
<QUESTIONS> Do you get any hate mail like flames on the net?
<SugarRush> More flames than fb, unfortunately.
<Jo_Ann> I haven't; I have heard of others who haven received hate mail.
<Lynda> I only write in XF or A-team now, both are pretty good at saying nice things <g>
<Celeste&Seah> Celeste here: I have never received a single flame for any zine I've published.
<Host1> why on earth would someone send hate mail?
<Lynda> I got a flame for a BSG slash story in the 80's
<Guest3> Strange people run amok in this world!
<Celeste&Seah> Well, there are a lot of people who don't like slash for instance.
<Host1> do they not know what they're buying? or do they do it on purpose?
<Guest6> Have to go... thanks for the chat and info, guys!! Perhaps we'll be back later.
<Host4> But unlike the net, when you just run accross it, you have to order a zine.
<Jo_Ann> There are also people who take an intense dislike to certain writers.

<QUESTIONS> NEW QUESTION: So, I want to get published! How do I do it?
* Guest2 smiles - good question
<SugarRush> Write something great, and submit it to a zine.
<Jo_Ann> Write something, write it well, and contact me--as long as it's slash!
<Celeste&Seah> If you want to get published, you have to write. And it helps if you can take constructive criticism from your editor. <g>
<Lynda> find a zine that is accepting submissions in the fandom in which your story is set
<Lynda> I was just going to say that about crticism
<Celeste&Seah> Fanzines.com has a search engine to helpyou find a zine looking for 'tribs in the fandom you write in.
<Host1> just how critical do you get?
<Lynda> sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind

<QUESTIONS> NEW QUESTION: What's the main reason for not accepting someone's work?
<SugarRush> It may not be the right fandom.
<Celeste&Seah> ...as critical as I have to be. <g>
<Jo_Ann> Perhaps it should be understood that all editors have their preferences as to content. They will judge a story accordingly.
<Lynda> especially if it's a gen story, people acting out of character just cannot be published
<QUESTIONS> how does Zine fanfic compare to Net fanfic quality wise?
<Celeste&Seah> Lynda, is it OK for people in slash to be out of character? ;)
<Jo_Ann> The editor may be looking for a certain type of story to fit the nature of her zine.
<Lynda> oh yes, all slash is AU after all, but not so out of character that the reader is unable to recognize them
<Lynda> is what I was trying to say
* Guest2 agrees with Lynda
<QUESTIONS> Do you find that most people are understanding of you criticism?
<Celeste&Seah> I've backed off accepting stories that are so poorly written, they cannot be fixed without a major rewrite.
* Lynda agrees with Celeste&Seah
<Jo_Ann> Criticism: For the most part people will accept it. I'm not here to hurt anyone, and they mostly understand that. Otoh, I understand that their story is their baby. You can't be too abusive without raising the maternal instinct. :>
<QUESTIONS> is it easy/tough to critisize the work?
<Lynda> Sometimes, though if the plot has been very good I've persevered
<Celeste&Seah> Writers who write well tend to be writers who are "grownups" who can take criticism well. Funny how that works out!
<QUESTIONS> So how much time are you willing to devote to an individual story in order to fix it up?
<Jo_Ann> Criticism: It's never easy telling someone their story sucks.
<Celeste&Seah> I would never be abusive. Always, always praise what you like as you talk about what you think can be better written.
<Jo_Ann> Regarding story repair: Whatever it takes, if it's worth it.
<QUESTIONS> How can a author tell if they really stink and should give up?
<Lynda> If the plot is good praise it - that helps smooth the path for alterations
<Celeste&Seah> I don't think anyone who writes, even if they "stink"
<Lynda> nil desperandum
<Celeste&Seah> oops... I don't think anyone who writes, even if they "stink", should ever give up.
<QUESTIONS> Have you ever had to refuse anyone because they were obviously too young to be involved in slash fandom?
* Lynda is good at pressing enter before she means to
<Celeste&Seah> Since we aren't doing this for money, we must be doing it for love and for the enjoyment of it.
<SugarRush> Exactly, Seah. If you don't keep on with it, you'll never get to a point where you don't "stink" anymore. And we *all* stank at one point.
<Jo_Ann> Regarding age question: Not that I know of.
<Celeste&Seah> That wasn't Seah, that was CELESTE!
<SugarRush> Oops. Sorry, Celeste.

<QUESTIONS> NEW QUESTION: Can you tell us about a favorite story from a favorite zine?
<Celeste&Seah> Celeste here: Some of my fav stuff was in Blake's 7. But I'm so bad with names and titles... *sigh*
<QUESTIONS> what was the story about?
<SugarRush> In XF: any of Cody Nelson's stuff. And there was one really lovely DS story I just read, called "Silence Keeps the Door." Can't remember the author's name, though.
<Celeste&Seah> I think my fav zine was "Double-Edged Sword". Oh, that cover.
<QUESTIONS> As editors do you ever put in your own work? stories, pics, etc?
<Guest1> Silence Keeps the Door was by Gloria Lancaster - I published it in 'Two'. She won a Stiffie for that. But boy, did it need a lot of editing!
<SugarRush> And one excellent Pros novel, Harlequin Airs. One of my favorite zines of all time.
<Jo_Ann> Linda says thanks, Suge!
<Celeste&Seah> I fell like a rock for Sylvia's writing in X-files, of course.
<Lynda> yes, one zine had jusr four of my own stories in it - a gen zine
<SugarRush> M/K Ultra's a collection of my really early M/K stories.
<Celeste&Seah> DSVs 1, 2, and 3 have my own stuff in them, plus illos & cartoons. Hey, if you can't publish yourself....
<SugarRush> Hey, sometimes you *have* to publish yourself, if nobody else will send you stuff!
<Host4> Is it difficult to publish your own work? Who edits your stuff?
<Celeste&Seah> Celeste and I must leave in about 2 minutes
<Celeste&Seah> Seah here: I find it impossible to edit my own stuff, and always hand it off to a co-editor, or a bunch of betas
<SugarRush> Same here.
<SugarRush> I never put my stuff out there on paper without an expert editor looking it over first.
<SugarRush> I really have to go in a couple minutes myself.
<QUESTIONS> Well, are there anymore burning questions from the audience?
<Host4> Yes! Why so little M/Sk in zines?
<Lynda> I always get someone else to edit, in the case of my gen zine I got my mother to do it <g>
<Celeste&Seah> Bye for now guys, thanks for inviting us! Hope we see you again soon!
<Lynda> bye guys
<QUESTIONS> bye Seah and Celeste!

<QUESTIONS> how about a round of appluase for our guests!
<QUESTIONS> <clap> <clap> <clap>
<Guest5> Thanks everyone it's been great
* Host2 whistles and stomps
* Host4 stands, applauds
<QUESTIONS> Thanks again, Sugar, Jo Ann, Guest1, Celste, Seah, Lynda!
<Jo_Ann> Thanks! It was lovely.
<Host1> Thank you again for coming in and speaking.
<QUESTIONS> Jo Ann, Sugar would you like to mention one more time how people can get zines?
<Jo_Ann> There are several ways: check out conventions, fanzines.com, listservs, and zines themselves.
<SugarRush> At conventions, or through mail-order. Or go to Seah and Celeste's www.fanzines.com site.
<Host2> We're going to be going to special chats every other month - so one is in the works for March.
<Host2> Our next chat will likely focus on BDSM in XF fanfic - no specific guests/date have been set up yet, but we'll let y'all know!
<Lynda> look forward to it <g>
<Host1> So, if you like your slash on the rough side, watch your mailbox for an announcement!
<SugarRush> I'm bound and determined to be there for that one!
<Host1> LOL!
* Host2 grins at Sugar
<Host1> Slash Information Zine?
<Host2> but of course, Sugar!
<Jo_Ann> Regarding X-plicit Fantasies, e-mail me at tasha@ris.net.
<Host3> I know there's a zine/mag out (updated quarterly) listing all kinda slashzines plus prices

The END.

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